Harcastle Environmental / BB-Demo – Negotiation
Callcompleted
Harcastle Environmental · 2026-06-22 12:15
Negotiation on the £6,225 expansion on top of the £44k Growth subscription. CFO Andrew Sugden will sign by 30 Jun 2026 only if a business case is written. Owen Tallis also warned of a price step-up at the April renewal.
What was said
What this says
Current to 13 Oct 26Negotiation on the £6,225 expansion on top of the £44k Growth subscription. CFO Andrew Sugden will sign by 30 Jun 2026 only if a business case is written. Owen Tallis also warned of a price step-up at the April renewal.
What happened: On 22 Jun 2026 Lewis Kerr confirmed the expansion at £6,225 plus VAT, co-termed to the renewal. Andrew pressed for a price movement and Owen Tallis declined, saying any discount is first term only.
Customer view: Andrew wants the margin and the integration cost visible before he signs. Nicola Brearley could not give a clean margin figure and offered three soft benefits.
Commercial: Owen said the Growth subscription moves to the current list price at renewal on 11 Apr 2027. Andrew took it into the plan and asked for the exact figure on one page.
Watch: The evidence does not show whether the order form was signed. Martin Firth reported nothing overdue, so this is a value and process gate, not a payment concern.
Themes
Current to 9 Oct 26Theme
Expansion sign-off conditions
Importance
upsell
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BB-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
Current to 9 Oct 26- Nicola Brearley to get the business case to Andrew Sugden by the Friday after the call, ahead of the 30 Jun 2026 signature target.
- Lewis Kerr to send a one-page note the same day with the expansion quote, the exact renewal figure and the dates.
- Lewis Kerr to confirm onboarding timing with the CSM, Marcus, and ask him to send Nicola a usage summary.
Risks
Current to 9 Oct 26- Andrew will not sign before the business case is written, and the benefits Nicola listed are soft with no margin figure.
- The Growth subscription steps up to the current list price at the 11 Apr 2027 renewal, and the customer has not yet seen the figure.
- Timing for the extra teams to go live was not given, and the depots will ask.
Opportunities
Current to 9 Oct 26- The expansion brings more teams onto the same view, with the depots asking to see collections, tickets and invoices.
- Active use is up by about half on the previous quarter, which supports the case for deeper adoption.
Transcript
Lewis Kerr NoneHello, can everyone hear me alright? I think I'm coming through.
Nicola Brearley NoneLoud and clear, Lewis. Hi. Afternoon, all.
Andrew Sugden NoneAfternoon. Is Martin on?
Martin Firth NoneI'm here, I'm here. Just finding the mute button. Hello.- Lewis Kerr NoneGood. Owen's just joining, I can see him in the lobby. There he is.
Owen Tallis NoneSorry, sorry. Previous call overran. Can you hear me? Right. Hello all.- Nicola Brearley NoneNo problem. Honestly I'd normally start with the week's worst complaint, but it's lunchtime and I'd like to keep my sandwich down.
- Lewis Kerr NoneHa. Fair enough. Is it still raining up in Wakefield? It's been grim down here all morning.
- Nicola Brearley NoneIt's been the same for about a week. The drivers don't mind, to be fair, it's the paperwork that suffers.
- Andrew Sugden NoneShall we get on? I've got a hard stop. What's the headline?
- Lewis Kerr NoneYes, of course. So, just to confirm what we're here to settle: you'd like the expansion we've put in the proposal live, and signed by the end of this month. That's Tuesday 30 June 2026 on our side. Is that still right?
- Nicola Brearley NoneThat's right. That's what I'd like, anyway. Andrew's the one with the pen.
- Andrew Sugden NoneMm. Go on, Lewis. Put a number on it for me.
- Lewis Kerr NoneTo put a number on it: the expansion comes to £6,225 in total, plus VAT. That sits alongside your Growth subscription, which stays at £44k a year. Nothing changes on the subscription itself.
- Andrew Sugden NoneAnd that £6,225 is all-in? There's nothing else coming behind it?
- Lewis Kerr NoneIt's the total for the expansion as quoted. It's in the proposal I sent, and I'm not quoting it from memory, I've got it open in front of me. If scope changes, the number changes, and I'd tell you before anything was invoiced.
- Owen Tallis NoneCan I jump in? Where does this stand against the date, Andrew? Is Tuesday the thirtieth realistic or is that a hopeful date?
- Andrew Sugden NoneIt's realistic if the business case is written. It isn't yet. I don't sign before it's written, that's just how I work.
- Owen Tallis NoneUnderstood. Who writes it, and what's the next dated step?
- Nicola Brearley NoneThat's me. I've got a draft, it's about two thirds there. I can get it to Andrew by Friday. Is that enough time, Andrew?
- Andrew Sugden NoneFriday's fine. But I'll want the margin in it. What's the margin on that, Nicola? Not what the brain costs, what it earns us.
- Nicola Brearley NoneRight, so I can't give you a clean margin figure. What I can give you is the three things I'd put in the case. One, fewer missed collections turning into complaints, because the account managers see the ticket before the customer rings. Two, account managers not spending half a morning pulling invoices and call notes together. Three, we catch the contracts that are quietly going unprofitable.
- Andrew Sugden NoneThose are all soft. How many customers does it touch?
- Nicola Brearley NoneEvery business customer on the accounts the extra teams look after. It isn't a pilot on a handful. That's why I want it in the plan, not tucked in a budget line.
- Andrew Sugden NonePut it in the plan, then. Fine. But I need the integration cost visible. If there's a cost to getting this running, I want to see it before I sign, not after.
- Lewis Kerr NoneThat's reasonable. The £6,225 is what we're charging. Anything on your side, say your own team's time to hook up the extra sources, we should list in the case so it isn't a surprise. I can draft that section with Nicola if it helps.
- Nicola Brearley NoneYes please. Lists of three, you know me. What's the fix and who owns it.
- Lewis Kerr NoneI'll send that over today.
- Martin Firth NoneCan I ask something from the finance side while we're on it? How does this get invoiced? I don't want two sets of dates floating about.
- Lewis Kerr NoneGood question, Martin. The expansion is co-termed to your renewal, so it runs to the same end as the Growth contract. Your current term finishes on 10 Apr 2027 and renewal is 11 Apr 2027. One set of dates, and it all comes round together.
- Martin Firth NoneRight. So a single invoice for the expansion, now, and then at renewal it's all one invoice again?
- Lewis Kerr NoneOne invoice for the expansion once the order form is signed, on the usual thirty-day terms. Then at renewal it's one invoice covering everything. I'll write that into the covering note so you've got it in black and white.
- Martin Firth NonePerfect. And for the record, there's nothing outstanding with you at the moment. Nothing overdue on our side. I check the ledger every Monday.
- Owen Tallis NoneWhich we appreciate. It does help when we're having this kind of conversation.
- Andrew Sugden NoneLet me come at this a different way. Is there any movement on the price? I'd rather sign a number I've had a go at.
- Owen Tallis NoneI thought you might. Straight answer: I can't move it much, and I'd be wary of moving it at all. You're already on a number that was set when you joined. Let's not discount twice.
- Andrew Sugden NoneThat's a bit blunt.
- Owen Tallis NoneIt is, sorry. Let me put it better. Any discount we give is on the first term only. It doesn't carry past that. I'd rather tell you now than have you plan on a number that won't be there at renewal.
- Andrew Sugden NoneHang on. Say more about renewal. What does that look like?
- Owen Tallis NoneYou were told in January, and Lewis will have the note. Customers signed on the earlier price book stay on it until their first renewal after the summer. Yours falls after that, so at renewal in April next year the Growth subscription moves to the current list price. It's a step up and I won't dress it up.
- Andrew Sugden NoneRight. That goes in the plan as well. Thank you for saying it plainly. What's the new figure, roughly?
- Lewis Kerr NoneI'd rather not quote it from memory, Andrew. I'll put the exact renewal figure in the note I send today, next to the expansion quote, so you can see both on one page.
- Andrew Sugden NoneGood. That's what I'd want.
- Nicola Brearley NoneCan I add something about why I'm pushing for this? Because I think the usage speaks for itself.
- Lewis Kerr NonePlease. I was going to come to it.
- Nicola Brearley NoneSo on a normal day we've got ten or eleven people actually in the brain. That's up by about half on the quarter before. And it's not the same two enthusiasts either, it's the account managers, a couple of the team leaders, and people from the complaints desk. Three groups, three different reasons for being in there.
- Andrew Sugden NoneOut of how many licences?
- Lewis Kerr NoneYou've got forty licensed users. So you're well inside them. To be clear, I'm not suggesting you need more seats. The usage doesn't support that and I wouldn't push it.
- Andrew Sugden NoneGood. Then what is the expansion for, if not seats? Remind me, I've read it twice and I'd like to hear it said.
- Nicola Brearley NoneIt's about bringing more of our teams onto the same view, so it isn't just the commercial side seeing everything. The depots are asking. They want to see the customer's side: collections, tickets, invoices, in one place. At the moment they find out about a complaint from the account manager, a day late.
- Owen Tallis NoneAnd that's the case in one sentence, Andrew. Customers hear about the missed collection from you first, not the other way round.
- Andrew Sugden NoneMm. Yes. If it holds, I'll go with it. Put the sentence in the case, Nicola, and put the number next to it.
- Nicola Brearley NoneWill do. I'll try to find something solid from the last couple of months. A complaint we caught early, a customer we kept.
- Lewis Kerr NoneIf it helps, the CSM can pull the activity for the case. Marcus knows your account best. I'll ask him to send Nicola a short summary of how the teams have been using it.
- Nicola Brearley NoneMarcus is great, yes. That would be useful.
- Martin Firth NoneOne more thing from me, and then I'll stay out of it. Who do I send the signed copy to, and who raises the invoice? I'd like the name on the covering note.
- Lewis Kerr NoneThe signed order form comes back to me, and I'll pass it to our finance team to raise the invoice. I'll put a contact on the note. Do you want it addressed to you or to the accounts mailbox?
- Martin Firth NoneTo me, please. And copy the mailbox. I'm off the odd Friday.
- Lewis Kerr NoneDone.
- Owen Tallis NoneAndrew, can I ask one thing before you go? Who signs? I assume it's you, but I'd like it on the record.
- Andrew Sugden NoneI sign. As with the original. Nobody else.
- Owen Tallis NoneGreat. So the next dated step is Friday, the business case to Andrew. Then you've got the weekend and the Monday. And the signature by Tuesday 30 June 2026. Does that sound fair?
- Andrew Sugden NoneIf the case reads well, yes. I'm not promising on a case I haven't read.
- Owen Tallis NoneThat's all I'm asking. I'd rather it's a firm maybe now than a hopeful yes.
- Nicola Brearley NoneCan I ask one practical thing? Once it's signed, how quickly do the extra teams actually get in? I'm going to be asked by the depots.
- Lewis Kerr NoneI'd rather not give you a date I haven't checked. I'll confirm the timing with the CSM and put it in the covering note, so you've got something to give the depots. Fair?
- Nicola Brearley NoneFair. Honestly I'd rather have the right answer than a quick one.
- Andrew Sugden NoneRight. I need to go. Lewis, send me one page. The expansion, the renewal figure, the dates. One page.
- Lewis Kerr NoneOne page, understood. I'll send it over today.
- Andrew Sugden NoneThank you. Speak soon.
- Martin Firth NoneThanks, everyone. Bye.
- Nicola Brearley NoneThanks all. I'll get that draft finished tonight.
- Owen Tallis NoneCheers. Good call. Lewis, stay on a second.
- Lewis Kerr NoneOf course. Thanks, everyone, and thanks for your time. Kind regards.
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