Harcastle Environmental / BG-Demo – Negotiation
Callcompleted
Harcastle Environmental · 10 Mar 2025 14:00
Negotiation call with Harcastle Environmental. Growth scope agreed at £52k all in, no price movement. Quarterly invoicing accepted. CFO Andrew Sugden signs only after the business case and an IT effort estimate.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Negotiation call with Harcastle Environmental. Growth scope agreed at £52k all in, no price movement. Quarterly invoicing accepted. CFO Andrew Sugden signs only after the business case and an IT effort estimate.
What happened: Lewis Kerr stated the Growth deal at £52k all in, implementation included, plus VAT, and said it is not an annual price. Owen Tallis refused any price movement and offered quarterly invoicing instead, which Andrew accepted.
Customer view: Andrew is the sole signer and will not sign before Nicola Brearley's business case is written. He also wants a written estimate of the customer's own IT time before he signs.
Commercial: Terms discussed are 30-day payment terms from invoice date, quarterly invoicing in the order form, and a purchase order reference from Martin Firth. Friday 28 Mar 2025 is the target signing date, conditional on the business case and clean terms.
Watch: Nicola's credit note saving figure is still an unfinished draft. The evidence does not show whether the business case or the estimate was delivered.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Growth deal negotiation
Importance
upsell
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Lewis Kerr to send the draft order form with the quarterly schedule and the written IT effort estimate this week.
- Nicola Brearley to deliver the business case to Andrew Sugden the following week.
- Owen Tallis to introduce Marcus Bell as customer success manager before Friday 28 Mar 2025.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Signing on Friday 28 Mar 2025 slips if the business case or the terms are not ready.
- The customer's own IT effort is unquantified and the CFO treats it as a cost to budget before signing.
- The avoided credit note case is still an unfinished draft.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Growth covers eight connectors and the first phase needs three, leaving room to expand.
- Quarterly invoicing addresses the finance team's cash forecast concern.
Transcript
Lewis KerrHello, can you hear me all right? I've got Owen with me, he's just dialling in now.
Nicola BrearleyHi Lewis, yes, loud and clear. I'm in the meeting room with Andrew, and Martin is just coming through from his desk. Give him a second.
Owen TallisAfternoon, everyone. Owen Tallis, I look after the sales team. Lewis has been working with you on this, I'm only here to make sure we land it properly.
Andrew SugdenAfternoon. Andrew. Could I have the headline first, please?- Lewis KerrOf course. The headline is that we're agreed on Growth, the scope is clear to both sides, and what's left is the number, the payment terms and the date you want to sign. To put a number on it, the deal is £51,600 all in, implementation included, plus VAT.
- Andrew SugdenAll in. So that's not the yearly figure.
- Lewis KerrCorrect, it's the total value of the deal, so it includes the one-off implementation fee. It isn't an annual price and I don't want anyone on your side reading it that way. The subscription itself is annual and renews from there.
- Andrew SugdenRight. What's the margin on that? Meaning, what does it cost us per customer we look after, once it's running?
- Nicola BrearleyCan I jump in on that, Andrew? Because that's really the case I've been writing. We've got roughly thirty thousand business customers, and today an account manager has to open the collections system, then the helpdesk, then the invoices, to answer one phone call.
- Andrew SugdenHow many customers does it touch, though? Not all thirty thousand on day one.
- Nicola BrearleyEvery one of them is in the data from day one, that's the point. But the account managers will feel it first on the larger contracts, the ones where a missed collection turns into a complaint and then into a credit note. Which depot, which round, what did we promise. At the moment that's three different screens.
- Andrew SugdenMm. And you'd put a figure on avoided credit notes.
- Nicola BrearleyI'd rather not guess in front of you. I've got a draft with what we gave away last year and what I think we can claw back. It isn't finished.
- Andrew SugdenThen it goes in the plan once it's finished. I don't sign before the business case is written, you know that, Nicola.
- Nicola BrearleyI know, I know. I'm not asking you to. I'll get it to you next week.
- Owen TallisCan I ask the dull question? What's the next dated step, and who signs? Because Lewis has Friday 28 Mar 2025 against this deal and I'd like to know if that's real.
- Andrew SugdenI sign. Nobody else. And Friday 28 Mar 2025 is workable if the business case is done and the terms are clean. If either of those slips, it slips.
- Owen TallisThat's fair, and I'd rather hear it now than on the Thursday. Lewis, what do you need to make the terms clean?
- Lewis KerrMostly a few answers from Martin, I think. Martin, you're the one who'll be chasing the invoices, so I'd like to hear what would make it easy for you.
Martin FirthThanks, yes. Sorry, I was on mute. Hello all. So my questions are quite boring, really. How is it invoiced, and when, and what are the payment terms?- Lewis KerrNot boring at all, they're what I'd ask. The subscription is invoiced annually in advance as standard. Quarterly is available if you ask for it. Payment terms are thirty days.
- Martin FirthThirty days from invoice date, or from when we receive it?
- Lewis KerrFrom the invoice date. I'll write it into the order form so it isn't left to anyone's memory.
- Martin FirthGood. And the implementation fee. Is it billed separately, or does it come out of the same invoice?
- Lewis KerrIt's inside the £51,600, but how it's split across invoices I don't want to quote from memory. I'll set it out in the order form and send it to you, Martin, so you can check it before Andrew sees it.
- Martin FirthThat works. Our system will want a purchase order reference, so I'd need to know in good time.
- Lewis KerrUnderstood. If you send the reference to me, we'll put it on the invoice so it doesn't bounce.
- Andrew SugdenLet me come back to one thing. Integration cost. Where does it sit? If there is a cost on our side to connect the systems, it needs to be budgeted before I sign. It can't turn up in the summer.
- Lewis KerrFair. The implementation is a fixed fee, so connecting the sources you've listed is inside the number I gave you. Growth includes eight connectors, and you're using fewer than that for the first phase.
- Nicola BrearleyWhich is three for us, to start. The collections system, the helpdesk and the accounting system. Lists of three, sorry, I can't help it.
- Lewis KerrNo, that's helpful. The brain runs inside your own Snowflake account, so there's a little work from your IT people to give us access. That's their time, not a charge from us. If you later want more connectors than Growth includes, that's a separate quote and you'd see it before anything happens.
- Andrew SugdenTheir time is a cost too, though.
- Lewis KerrIt is, and you're right to call it out. I can't tell you how many days it takes on your side. Do you want me to ask our delivery people to give an honest estimate, in writing, before you sign?
- Andrew SugdenYes. Put that in the plan.
- Lewis KerrDone, I'll ask today. Owen, I think that's the other thing you wanted to cover?
- Owen TallisIt is, thanks. Andrew, I'll be straight with you, because I think you'd prefer it. The number Lewis gave you is where we can be for a first term. I'd rather not reopen it, and let's not discount twice.
- Andrew SugdenI'd expected you to say that. I still have to ask whether there's any movement.
- Owen TallisYou've asked, and the answer on price is no. What I can do, if cash timing matters more to you, is the quarterly invoicing Lewis mentioned, and that doesn't change what you pay overall.
- Andrew SugdenMartin, does quarterly help you?
- Martin FirthIt would help the cash forecast, yes. One big payment in advance is fine, but it lands badly in the month it lands. Quarterly is easier to explain to the finance team.
- Andrew SugdenThen we'll take quarterly, unless the business case says otherwise.
- Lewis KerrNoted. I'll put quarterly in the order form and mark it clearly. If you change your mind before Friday 28 Mar 2025, tell me and I'll reissue it, no fuss.
- Nicola BrearleyCan I ask something slightly different? Once we sign, how quickly are my account managers seeing anything? Because last week's worst complaint was a customer who'd been missed twice and rang us before we'd even noticed. I can't have that happening for another two months while we wait.
- Lewis KerrGrowth implementation is run over a set number of weeks, and the first connectors come in early, so your people see real data before the end of it. I'll put the timeline in the same note as the estimate for your IT time. I don't want to give you a date from memory on a call.
- Nicola BrearleyOkay. What's the fix, and who owns it? On your side, I mean.
- Owen TallisLewis owns the commercial side until signature. After that, Marcus Bell is your customer success manager and he'll own adoption. I'd introduce you before Friday 28 Mar 2025 so you're not meeting a stranger afterwards.
- Nicola BrearleyGood, thank you. I'd like that. I'd like him to see the complaints view before we go live, if he can.
- Andrew SugdenNicola, careful. I'm not discussing features. That's your side of the table.
- Nicola BrearleyUnderstood. I'll leave it with Marcus then. Budget is yours, the rest is mine.
- Martin FirthOne more from me, sorry, and then I'll leave you to it. What do we do if the figure on the invoice doesn't match the order form? Who do I ring?
- Lewis KerrRing me, and copy Owen if you like. The order form is the document that decides what you owe, not a quote and not a draft. So if there's a gap, we correct the invoice. That's the rule.
- Martin FirthThat's what I wanted to hear. Thank you.
- Owen TallisLet me summarise, because I think we've covered it. Price stands as is, quarterly invoicing at your request, thirty-day terms from invoice date, a written estimate of your IT effort before signature, and Andrew signs once the business case is done. Have I missed anything?
- Andrew SugdenNo. Just the order of things. Estimate first, then the business case, then I read the order form. Not all at once on the Thursday.
- Lewis KerrThat order works for me. I'll send you the draft order form today, with the quarterly schedule, and I'll chase the delivery team for the estimate so you've got both this week.
- Nicola BrearleyAnd I'll get you the business case next week, Andrew. Three parts: what we lose now, what we gain, what it costs. Short.
- Andrew SugdenShort is good. Thank you, all.
- Owen TallisThanks, everyone. Speak soon.
- Martin FirthCheers, bye.
- Lewis KerrThanks all, I'll send that over today. Bye for now.
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