Penmaen Software / BG-Demo – Negotiation
Callcompleted
Penmaen Software · 1 Apr 2025 15:00
Negotiation on a small expansion of the Growth subscription. CFO Huw Bevan, who signs, challenged adoption and cost, wants a value note and usage figures first, and will answer by next Tuesday.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Negotiation on a small expansion of the Growth subscription. CFO Huw Bevan, who signs, challenged adoption and cost, wants a value note and usage figures first, and will answer by next Tuesday.
What happened: Tom Ashdown gave expected close as Tuesday 8 Apr 2025. Huw Bevan, who signs, opened by asking who actually uses the brain.
Customer view: Cerys Llewellyn said forty licensed users, nearly ten active, and called the rest headroom. Huw answered that headroom is a polite word for unused.
Commercial: Owen Tallis put current contracted ARR at £40k on Growth and the expansion at £1,319 in total, a deal total and not an annual price. Tom will confirm the layout in writing.
Watch: Huw is comfortable in principle but will not decide on the call. The main contract ends 24 Jul 2025 and the expansion is expected to end with it.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Growth expansion value case
Importance
upsell
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Tom Ashdown sends the order form draft with co-termination and payment terms to Dylan Price and Huw by Friday.
- Cerys Llewellyn sends a short note naming the operators, and Marcus Bell sends the usage summary the same day.
- Huw Bevan gives BG-Demo his answer by next Tuesday.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Forty licensed users against nearly ten active invites a value challenge from the CFO, here and at renewal.
- The CFO says the account would lose nothing if the expansion did not go ahead, so the case rests on a note he has asked for.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Extend the operator view to the mid-sized operators the team still handles by hand.
- A clean co-terminated order form leaves one renewal conversation instead of two.
Transcript
Tom AshdownAfternoon, all. Can everyone hear me alright?
Cerys LlewellynAfternoon, Tom. Yes, loud and clear.
Huw BevanGood afternoon.
Dylan PriceHello, hello. Sorry, I'm just getting the camera to behave. There we go.- Tom AshdownNo rush at all. Owen's in the lobby, I can see him, so he'll be with us in a sec. How's everyone's week been? Cerys, I'd guess you're busy.
- Cerys LlewellynBusy, yes. My team asked me on Monday whether we could stop building the operator renewals list out of three different spreadsheets, so, well, good timing for this call really.
- Tom AshdownHa, that's the best kind of timing. Oh, here he is.
Owen TallisSorry, sorry, back to back all morning. Hello Huw, Dylan, Cerys. Tom, where does this stand against the date?- Tom AshdownExpected close is Tuesday 8 April 2025, so a week today. We're in negotiation on the expansion and I think we're close, no drama.
- Owen TallisGood. Who signs?
- Huw BevanThat would be me, in the end. Though I'd like to understand a few things first, if that's alright. Can I start with adoption? Who is actually using it?
- Cerys LlewellynSure. I can take that, Huw. We've got forty licensed users, but day to day it's nearly ten people active. That's up quite a bit on last quarter, though, so it's moving the right way.
- Huw BevanForty licensed and nearly ten active.
- Cerys LlewellynYes, I know how that sounds. But it's mostly my team and a couple of people in account management who read tickets per operator. Those are the people who need it. I've seen this work at the depth we have now, and the rest of the licences are headroom.
- Huw BevanHeadroom is a polite word for unused.
- Tom AshdownFair challenge, Huw, and I won't dress it up. Forty is what's on the Growth contract, so you've got room. The point of the expansion is to put it to more use, not to pay for more seats you don't need.
- Owen TallisCan I just say the numbers plainly so we're all on the same page? Current contracted ARR is £39,600 on Growth. The expansion deal comes to £1,319 in total. That's the whole of it.
- Dylan PriceRight, and that's a one-off figure, not something added to the annual number?
- Owen TallisIt's the deal's total value, Dylan. I wouldn't call it an annual price. Tom, correct me if the order form says otherwise.
- Tom AshdownNo, that's how I read it too, but leave that with me and I'll confirm exactly how it's laid out in the paperwork before anything goes anywhere. I don't like quoting from memory.
- Dylan PriceAppreciated. We've had the invoices through and everything matches the £39,600, so I'd like the expansion to be just as clean.
- Huw BevanLet me ask what I should have asked at the start. What would we lose if we did not do the expansion?
- Cerys LlewellynHonestly, Huw, nothing falls over. We carry on as we are. But the thing my team keeps asking for is the same view for the operators we don't cover well today. Right now that's still done by hand, and that's exactly the sort of thing I bought this for.
- Huw BevanBy hand, meaning your people's time.
- Cerys LlewellynMeaning my people's time, yes. And mistakes. We nearly missed a renewal conversation with one operator in the winter because it sat in someone's spreadsheet.
- Huw BevanHm. Yes, I remember something about that.
- Owen TallisCan I ask something, Cerys? Which customers are at the edge of that problem? Is it a handful or is it most of the book?
- Cerys LlewellynA handful that matter a lot. The big leisure operators are covered. It's the mid-sized ones where we're blind.
- Owen TallisRight. That's a value case, then. Huw, would a short note from Cerys on exactly that help you?
- Huw BevanIt would. Short, with the operators named and what the team would stop doing. I don't need a long document.
- Cerys LlewellynI can do that by the end of the week. Diolch, Huw, that's helpful to know.
- Tom AshdownAnd from our side, I'll get Marcus to pull usage so the note isn't just Cerys's say so. He's got the numbers on questions asked and who's asking.
- Huw BevanGood. I'd rather see that than a sales slide.
- Owen TallisFair enough. Now, on the commercial side, I'll be straight. I can't go lower than where Tom's put it. Any discount applies to the first term only, and we're beyond that already. Let's not discount twice.
- Dylan PriceUnderstood. I wasn't going to ask for more, to be honest. My question is the timing. Your contract runs to 24 Jul 2025 and the renewal date is 25 Jul 2025. Would the expansion sit alongside that and end with it?
- Tom AshdownThat's how I'd expect it to work, so it lines up with the main contract and you have one renewal conversation rather than two. But I'll put it in writing so you're not relying on me saying so on a call.
- Dylan PricePerfect. And payment terms stay the same as the current ones?
- Owen TallisThirty days, same as now. Nothing changes there.
- Huw BevanCan I ask one more thing, and then I'll stop. You say the dip, sorry, the rise in usage. Is it holding, or is it a good month?
- Cerys LlewellynI'd say it's holding. Once the team got used to asking it questions rather than opening the helpdesk and the CRM side by side, they didn't go back. We've only had one ticket in the last month and it was nothing urgent.
- Huw BevanThat's a quiet account, which I like. Cheap to support.
- Tom AshdownHa, quiet and cheap. I'll take that as a compliment on behalf of Marcus.
- Huw BevanLet's not rush this. I'm comfortable in principle, but I won't decide today. If I could have Cerys's note and Marcus's numbers, I can give you an answer by next Tuesday.
- Owen TallisThat works, and it's inside the date. So, what's the next dated step? Tom?
- Tom AshdownRight. By Friday I'll send the order form draft to Dylan and Huw, with the co-termination and payment terms spelled out. Marcus sends the usage summary the same day. Cerys sends her note. Huw comes back to us by next Tuesday.
- Dylan PriceThat's clear. I'll check it against the invoices when it lands.
- Cerys LlewellynLovely. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for being straight with Huw, too, I know he asks the hard ones.
- Huw BevanIt's what I'm paid for, Cerys. Thank you all.
- Owen TallisThanks, all. Speak next week.
- Tom AshdownCheers, everyone. Have a good afternoon.
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