Harcastle Environmental / BB-Demo – Renewal
Callcompleted
Harcastle Environmental · 2026-01-14 10:45
On the 14 Jan 2026 renewal call, CFO Andrew Sugden said he will not sign until a business case is written. About five of 40 licensed users are active daily. The evidence does not show a decision.
What was said
What this says
Current to 13 Oct 26On the 14 Jan 2026 renewal call, CFO Andrew Sugden said he will not sign until a business case is written. About five of 40 licensed users are active daily. The evidence does not show a decision.
What happened: Lewis Kerr set out the term end of 10 Apr 2026 and renewal date of 11 Apr 2026. Marcus Bell showed about five of 40 licensed users active a day, down about a third on the previous quarter.
Customer view: Andrew said it is not what they bought it for and he cannot yet write the case. Martin Firth, the Credit Manager, uses it most weeks for credit control checks.
Commercial: The contracted figure is £40k, matching the order form and invoices. The CRM renewal deal shows £44k plus VAT, which Lewis put down to the first-term discount falling away.
Watch: Lewis offered a smaller tier if usage does not support 40 users. The CRM close date of 17 Mar 2026 is BB-Demo's forecasting date, not a commitment from the customer.
Themes
Current to 9 Oct 26Theme
Renewal needs business case
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BB-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
Current to 9 Oct 26- Marcus Bell to deliver usage by person and team, the live connectors and a team lead view by the end of next week.
- Lewis Kerr to send the renewal quote at the current tier today, with the VAT position, and a view on the smaller tier once the connectors are known.
- Martin Firth to write down his credit control steps this week and send Marcus a few team lead names.
Risks
Current to 9 Oct 26- Andrew Sugden will not sign the Growth renewal without a written business case, and says he cannot write one today.
- About five of 40 licensed users are active daily, down about a third, and only a small group in finance and customer services is named as regular users.
- The renewal deal in the CRM is £44,000 against £39,600 contracted, so a price rise lands on a customer questioning value.
Opportunities
Current to 9 Oct 26- A smaller tier for one team could be offered if the connector count and usage support it.
- Questions asked by person and team, plus Martin Firth's written credit control steps, can seed the value case Andrew asked for.
- Andrew said the number is not the issue if the brain is shown to earn its place.
Transcript
Marcus Bell NoneMorning, everyone. Can you all hear me alright?
Andrew Sugden NoneI can. Morning.
Martin Firth NoneMorning. Sorry, my camera's taking its time. There we go. Can you see me?- Marcus Bell NoneWe can, yes. Lewis, I think you're on mute.
Lewis Kerr NoneApologies. Morning, all. Mute button, every time. Is it as grey with you as it is here?- Martin Firth NoneGrey and wet. We had a frost first thing and the vans were late out, so I've been hearing about it since seven.
- Andrew Sugden NoneShall we get on? I'd like the headline first. Where are we on the renewal?
- Lewis Kerr NoneOf course. So I'm clear on what we're here to settle, Andrew: you want to know whether Harcastle renews Growth, for 40 users, and by when. The current term ends on 10 Apr 2026 and the renewal date is 11 Apr 2026. Our system has the renewal pencilled to close on 17 March 2026, but that's our working date, not a commitment from you. Marcus is going to walk through how the brain's being used first, because I think that frames the rest.
- Andrew Sugden NoneAnd the number?
- Lewis Kerr NoneTo put a number on it, the contracted figure today is £39,600. That's what's on the order form and what you've been invoiced. The renewal deal in our system is showing £44,000, plus VAT. The difference is the first-term discount falling away: same tier, same 40 users. Give me a second, I'll just check that against the order form, I don't quote from memory.
- Lewis Kerr NoneYes. That's consistent. I'll put it all in writing after the call so you've got it on paper.
- Andrew Sugden NoneUnderstood. Before we go further on that, though. I looked at the admin page last week, and it doesn't look like forty people are using it. Marcus?
- Marcus Bell NoneYeah. I've pulled the numbers and I'd rather be straight with you. Let me share my screen. Can you see that? Sorry, it's the wrong window. Hang on.
- Marcus Bell NoneRight. So this is the last quarter against the one before. On average about five people a day are active, out of the 40 licensed. That's down by about a third on the previous quarter.
- Andrew Sugden NoneA third.
- Marcus Bell NoneAbout a third, yes. I don't want to guess at the split by person on the call, because I'd sooner bring you the proper breakdown. What I can say is that it isn't that the brain has stopped working. One ticket in the last month, nothing urgent, and no invoice queries either.
- Andrew Sugden NoneSo it works and nobody uses it.
- Marcus Bell NoneI wouldn't put it quite that bluntly. Some people clearly use it. But fewer than when you started, and I'd like to understand why before we call it anything. Honestly, I don't know the reason yet.
- Martin Firth NoneCan I add something? I'm in it most weeks. When an account is behind on payment I check the invoices against the missed-collection tickets before I pick up the phone, so I know whether they've got a genuine grievance. That's me, and probably two or three others in finance and customer services. I'd assumed that was normal.
- Andrew Sugden NoneIt's not what we bought it for. We bought it so the account managers could see each customer's collections, tickets, calls and invoices in one place. Thirty thousand business customers. Are the account managers in it?
- Martin Firth NoneSome of them. I couldn't tell you how many, I don't sit with them. I do still hear them ask for invoice copies, which they shouldn't need to.
- Marcus Bell NoneThat's useful, thank you. It's a pattern I've seen before: a small group get the value, the wider rollout never quite lands, and nobody's job is to make it land. I'm not saying that's what's happened here. I'd want to talk to a couple of the account managers' team leads before I say so.
- Andrew Sugden NoneWhat would that cost me in time?
- Marcus Bell NoneHalf an hour each, tops. Happy to jump on a call with whoever you nominate. I'd ask them what they open in the morning, what they do instead, and where it falls down.
- Lewis Kerr NoneAndrew, if I may. I'd rather say this now than later. If the usage doesn't support 40 users, I'm not going to ask you to renew at 40 users because that's what the paperwork says. There's a smaller tier, for one team, with fewer users and fewer connectors. But I don't know how many connectors you have live, and I wouldn't suggest it blind. Marcus can tell me that.
- Marcus Bell NoneI can. I'll put it in the pack.
- Andrew Sugden NoneFine. Let me be plain about where I am. I'm not signing anything until there's a business case written. At the moment I can't write one. What does it save us, and how many customers does it touch in a week? Put it in the plan or take it out.
- Marcus Bell NoneUnderstood. What I can give you is questions asked, by person and by team, month on month. And where I can, which accounts those questions relate to. That gets you a rough count of customers touched. It won't be perfect.
- Andrew Sugden NoneRough is fine. What I need to know is whether it moves margin per contract. That's the test. If an account manager spends less time chasing a copy invoice, what is that worth?
- Martin Firth NoneFrom my side, if I take the credit control checks alone, it's easily an hour a week I'd otherwise spend hopping between screens. But that's me. I wouldn't hold that up as the business case.
- Andrew Sugden NoneNo, you shouldn't. But write down what you actually do, step by step, and roughly how often. That's something to start from.
- Martin Firth NoneI'll do that this week.
- Marcus Bell NoneCould I show one more thing while I've got the screen? This is the trend week by week. You can see it was steadier through the start of the term and then it slides. There's no single cliff. It's more a gradual thinning. So I'd not want to point at one event.
- Andrew Sugden NoneDoes anything else look like that? Other customers, I mean. Is this normal?
- Marcus Bell NoneI won't compare by name, that wouldn't be right. In general, a first renewal is when this gets looked at properly, because the people who sponsored it have moved on to the next thing. That's not unusual. What matters is what you do with it.
- Andrew Sugden NoneMm. And is there anything wrong with the data itself? If people are drifting away because the answers are stale, that's a different problem.
- Marcus Bell NoneGood question. Nothing I can see points that way. One ticket in the last month, and it wasn't about the data being out of date. If it were, I'd expect more noise than that. But I'll double check the connectors and the records indexed before I send the pack, so I'm not just telling you what's convenient.
- Andrew Sugden NonePlease do. What happens if we don't renew? Be straight with me.
- Lewis Kerr NoneStraight answer: the brain stays available until the end of the term, 10 Apr 2026. After that, it stops. The data underneath sits in your own Snowflake account, so it isn't lost, but the layer on top goes. I'd sooner we got to a decision on the evidence than ran the clock down.
- Marcus Bell NoneAnd so you have it formally: this is the renewal conversation. I'll send the notice in writing after this call, with the dates, so nobody is relying on what was said on a recording.
- Andrew Sugden NoneDoes anything have to be decided by the date in your system?
- Lewis Kerr NoneNo. The 17 March 2026 date is ours, for forecasting. What matters is the term end. If your business case needs to run past mid-March, tell me and I'll move ours. What I'd ask is that we don't leave it to the last week, because the order form needs to be signed before the renewal date, 11 Apr 2026.
- Andrew Sugden NoneI'll be able to say yes or no when I have the breakdown and a draft of the case. Not before.
- Lewis Kerr NoneThat's fair, and I'd rather it was that way round.
- Martin Firth NoneCan I ask something on the money side, so I don't get surprised? Is the invoice going to be the same shape as last time? Annual, in advance, thirty days?
- Lewis Kerr NoneSame shape, yes. Annual in advance, thirty-day terms. If you'd prefer quarterly, say so and I'll price it that way. Either way I'll show the VAT position on the quote. And thank you, Martin, there's nothing overdue on your side, which makes this a much easier conversation.
- Martin Firth NoneWe pay on terms. If it was late I'd be the first to know.
- Andrew Sugden NoneMarcus, one more. When you speak to the account managers, I don't want a training day. I want to know whether it's useful. If it isn't, I'd rather hear that.
- Marcus Bell NoneUnderstood, and that's what I'd want too. If it isn't useful to them, I'm better off knowing, and so are you. I'll ask it plainly and I'll tell you what they said, including the awkward bits.
- Andrew Sugden NoneGood. And I'd like the list of what's actually connected. In plain terms. I can't put an integration cost in the plan if I don't know what's there.
- Marcus Bell NoneYes, I'll list the sources that are live, and which of them are loading. I can have it with the usage breakdown.
- Andrew Sugden NoneRight. Let me say it back so we're all on the same page. Marcus: usage by person and by team, the live connectors, and a view from a couple of team leads. By the end of next week. Lewis: the renewal quote in writing, same tier, with the VAT position, and a view on the smaller tier once Marcus has the connectors. Martin: your steps, written down. I write the case when I have those. Anything I've missed?
- Lewis Kerr NoneOnly that I'll send the quote today, and I'll label it clearly as the renewal at the current tier, so it isn't mistaken for a recommendation. I'd like the recommendation to come after the breakdown.
- Marcus Bell NoneAnd shall we book half an hour for the week after next, to go through the pack together? Then Andrew's got it in front of him before he writes anything.
- Andrew Sugden NonePut it in. I'll move something.
- Martin Firth NoneI'll send you a couple of names of team leads after this, Marcus, so you're not hunting.
- Marcus Bell NoneThat would be brilliant, thank you. Anything on the call that wasn't clear?
- Andrew Sugden NoneNo. I'd just say, for the record, I'm not unhappy with the service. I'm not sure it's earning its place yet. Show me that it is, and the number isn't the issue.
- Lewis Kerr NoneUnderstood. That's a fair way to put it, and we'll deal with it that way.
- Marcus Bell NoneThanks, all. I'll get the notice and the invitation out this afternoon. Speak soon.
- Andrew Sugden NoneThank you. Goodbye.
- Martin Firth NoneCheers, bye.
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