Calderbrook Housing Group / BB-Demo – Negotiation
Callcompleted
Calderbrook Housing Group: documents · 2024-08-05 16:00
Pricing call on Growth. Helen Marsden needs the one-off fee and annual subscription split in the order form, plus data-location answers for information governance. Signature on 16 Aug 2024 holds only if the form arrives next day and questions come in that week.
What was said
What this says
Current to 11 Oct 26Pricing call on Growth. Helen Marsden needs the one-off fee and annual subscription split in the order form, plus data-location answers for information governance. Signature on 16 Aug 2024 holds only if the form arrives next day and questions come in that week.
What happened: Helen Marsden set out five things she needs before signing, led by a sentence in the order form on reconciling figures to the housing management system. Owen Tallis held the headline price and offered quarterly payment instead.
Commercial: the fifty-six thousand figure is the total deal value with the one-off implementation included, not the annual subscription. Owen did not answer how the implementation fee is invoiced and promised it with the order form.
Watch: Helen recommends but does not sign; the finance director signs. Information governance may raise concerns about tenant data, and the analyst who knows the repairs data is a small-team constraint.
Customer view: she said repairs and complaints in one place sold it to her.
Themes
Current to 9 Oct 26Theme
Growth deal signing conditions
Importance
neutral
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
Who was there
BB-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
Current to 9 Oct 26- Tom Ashdown sends the order form with the reconciliation sentence and the fee split the next morning.
- Owen Tallis confirms how the implementation fee is invoiced before signing.
- Tom Ashdown sends the data-location one-pager and an implementation load calendar.
Risks
Current to 9 Oct 26- Signature on 16 Aug 2024 depends on the order form arriving next day and information governance questions coming in that week.
- The finance director signs, so Helen can only recommend the deal.
- The analyst who knows the repairs data best may be stretched by the implementation.
Opportunities
Current to 9 Oct 26- A plain one-pager on where data sits in the customer's own Snowflake account could clear the security concern early.
- Quarterly subscription payment is available on request and could ease the pricing discussion.
Transcript
Tom Ashdown NoneHello, can you hear me all right? I've got a funny echo on my side.
Helen Marsden NoneYes, I can hear you fine. Good afternoon.- Tom Ashdown NoneAfternoon, Helen. How's the week started? It's Monday, so I'm guessing board papers.
- Helen Marsden NoneSomething like that. The pack goes out at the end of the week and I've spent the morning on an arrears table that doesn't reconcile to the housing management system. Not your problem, it's just the mood I'm in.
Owen Tallis NoneAfternoon both. Sorry, I'm a minute late, the call before this one overran. Helen, good to be on with you.- Helen Marsden NoneAnd you. Tom said you might join, since this is the pricing conversation.
- Owen Tallis NoneThat's right. I'll be straight with you, I'm here because deals of this size get a second name on them, not because anything's wrong. So, where does this stand against Friday? We have the sixteenth pencilled in as the close date and I'd like to know if that's real.
- Helen Marsden NoneIt's real as a target. Whether it's real in practice depends on a couple of things I need answered today. Can I run through them?
- Tom Ashdown NonePlease do. No drama, we've got the time.
- Helen Marsden NoneRight. First, the scope. The proposal says Growth, the connectors we discussed, and the implementation work to get the board pack built. My concern is the board pack itself. The board will ask where every figure comes from, and I will need to say, can you show me the source? So I want it confirmed that the implementation includes reconciling the tenant, repairs and arrears numbers back to the housing management system, and not just loading them into the brain.
- Tom Ashdown NoneYes. That's the whole point of how we'd run it. Each figure in the pack traces back to a record in the source system, and you can click through from the answer to where it came from. I'll make sure the scope document says that in plain words so it's not just my say-so on a call.
- Helen Marsden NoneI'd like it in the order form, not only in a scope document.
- Owen Tallis NoneThat's fair. Order form references the scope, the scope is part of the contract. Same effect, and it keeps the order form readable. If you'd rather have a sentence in the order form itself, we can do that.
- Helen Marsden NoneA sentence would be better. My finance team will read the order form and nothing else.
- Tom Ashdown NoneLeave that with me. I'll draft the sentence and send it across with the order form so you can see it before anyone signs.
- Helen Marsden NoneThank you. Second thing is the price. The number I've been given is fifty-six thousand. I need to be sure what that number is.
- Owen Tallis NoneGood question, and worth being precise. Fifty-six thousand pounds is the total value of the deal as we've scoped it, with the one-off implementation included. It is not the annual subscription on its own.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat's what I suspected. So the board paper can't say fifty-six thousand a year.
- Owen Tallis NoneIt cannot, and please don't let it. The order form will show the implementation as a fixed fee and the subscription as its own line, annual, in advance. I don't want you quoting a figure to your board that's the wrong shape.
- Tom Ashdown NoneAnd I should say, I'm doing this from memory on the split, so I'll confirm the exact lines in writing rather than say them out loud and get one wrong.
- Helen Marsden NoneI would prefer that. Honestly, I'd rather have it in front of me. The board will ask for the running cost year on year, and I will need both numbers separately, with the one-off clearly labelled as one-off.
- Owen Tallis NoneUnderstood. Tom, can you send the split alongside the order form, not as a separate email? One document, one set of numbers.
- Tom Ashdown NoneWill do. Tomorrow morning at the latest.
- Helen Marsden NoneNow, I have to ask, because someone on our side will ask me. Is there any movement on the price?
- Owen Tallis NoneI expected that, and it's a fair thing to ask. Let me tell you how I think about it. The fifty-six already reflects where we've landed after the earlier conversations. I'd rather not open a second round on the headline, because then neither of us knows what we're agreeing to. What I'd like to do is make the terms around it work for you.
- Helen Marsden NoneSuch as?
- Owen Tallis NonePayment shape, mainly. The standard is annual in advance on thirty-day terms. Quarterly is available on request if that suits your cash planning better.
- Helen Marsden NoneQuarterly for the subscription. And the implementation fee?
- Owen Tallis NoneLet me come back to you on the implementation fee, because I want to be sure how it's invoiced against the milestones before I say yes. I'm not going to guess at that on a call.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat's acceptable. I would just like to know before we sign, not after.
- Owen Tallis NoneBefore. I'll put it in the same pack as the order form.
- Tom Ashdown NoneWhile we're on it, Helen, is it your finance director who'd sign? Owen always asks me who signs and I never have a good answer.
- Helen Marsden NoneOur finance director signs, with the chief executive's office copied. I don't have signing authority at this level. I'd be the one recommending it, and I'll need to take it through our finance team first.
- Owen Tallis NoneGood, that's clear. And is there anything that would stop your finance director signing once she has the order form? Procurement, legal, a security review?
- Helen Marsden NoneSecurity, probably. Our information governance people will want to understand where the data sits. We hold tenant information, some of it sensitive, and they are cautious. They will want to hear that it doesn't leave our environment.
- Tom Ashdown NoneThat's one of the easier conversations, actually. The brain runs inside your own Snowflake account. Your data stays where it is, we don't copy it into a platform of ours. Your people stay in charge of access.
- Helen Marsden NoneDo you have that written down in a form I can hand to them? A one-pager, not a sales deck.
- Tom Ashdown NoneI'll send you something plain. How it's deployed, who can see what, and what we as a supplier can and can't reach. If their questions go beyond that, they can send them to me and I'll get them answered properly.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat would help. I'd rather they raised questions this week than the day before signature.
- Owen Tallis NoneAgreed. Let's not leave it to the last day. What's the next dated step on your side? I'd like a date, not a feeling.
- Helen Marsden NoneFair enough. I can take the order form to our finance team on Wednesday if I have it tomorrow. They meet Thursday. If they have no objections, I'd expect a signature by Friday.
- Owen Tallis NoneSo Friday 16 Aug 2024 holds, provided the order form is with you tomorrow and the information governance questions come in this week.
- Helen Marsden NoneProvided those two things, yes. I'm not going to promise more than that.
- Owen Tallis NoneThat's all I'm asking. I'd rather have an honest maybe than a hopeful yes.
- Helen Marsden NoneThere's one more thing, and it's more of a worry than a question. Our team is small. We have the analysts, but the person who knows the repairs data best is also the person who runs the day-to-day reporting. If the implementation needs a lot of his time, I need to know that early.
- Tom Ashdown NoneThat's a good thing to say now. We'd plan the implementation around who's available, and we'd be clear on what we need from him and when. Front-loaded at the start, then lighter once the connectors are in. I'll ask our implementation team to lay it out as a simple calendar so you can see the load.
- Helen Marsden NoneA calendar would be useful. The board doesn't need it, but I do.
- Owen Tallis NoneSomething else I'd like to flag, since it's the point where deals like this tend to wobble. Once you sign, the thing that makes this succeed is that your team is actually asking the brain questions within the first month, not admiring it. Tom, I'd like the kickoff date in the diary as part of the signing pack.
- Tom Ashdown NoneYes, let's get something in the diary. I'll propose a kickoff window with the order form, and Helen can tell me if it clashes with anything on her side.
- Helen Marsden NonePlease avoid the week the board pack goes out. Everything else is flexible.
- Tom Ashdown NoneNoted. I'll steer round it.
- Helen Marsden NoneLet me read back what I have, because I've been writing as we went. One, the order form includes a sentence on reconciling the figures to the housing management system. Two, the split between the one-off fee and the annual subscription, in the same document, clearly labelled. Three, quarterly payment for the subscription, and an answer on how the implementation fee is invoiced. Four, a plain one-pager on where the data sits for information governance. Five, a calendar of what you'd need from our analyst. Have I missed any?
- Tom Ashdown NoneThat's the lot. I couldn't have said it better.
- Owen Tallis NoneOne addition from me. A named person at your end for the signature, so the order form goes to the right inbox first time.
- Helen Marsden NoneI'll send you the details after this call. Not in a chat message, in an email, so there's a record.
- Owen Tallis NonePerfect.
- Helen Marsden NoneBefore we go. Honestly, the thing that sold this to me was the repairs and complaints coming together in one place. I've spent two years joining those by hand in spreadsheets, and every quarter the numbers move slightly depending who did the join. I'd like that to stop.
- Tom Ashdown NoneThat's the job, exactly. And it's why I'd rather get the reconciliation wording right now than promise you something fluffy.
- Helen Marsden NoneGood. I do appreciate that you haven't tried to rush me.
- Owen Tallis NoneWe'd rather you sign something you understand. Thanks, Helen. Tom will have everything with you tomorrow morning, and I'll check in on Thursday to see how your finance team got on.
- Helen Marsden NoneThank you both. Speak soon.
- Tom Ashdown NoneCheers, Helen. Have a good rest of the afternoon. Good luck with that arrears table.
- Helen Marsden NoneI'll need it. Goodbye.
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