Kingdon Diagnostics / BB-Demo – Negotiation
Callcompleted
Kingdon Diagnostics: documents · 2025-08-29 13:15
Kingdon's CFO questioned the return on a £2,934 expansion given low login numbers against forty licences. He asked for a lower price or deferral. BB-Demo held the price, held the offer open and agreed a usage review first.
What was said
What this says
Current to 11 Oct 26Kingdon's CFO questioned the return on a £2,934 expansion given low login numbers against forty licences. He asked for a lower price or deferral. BB-Demo held the price, held the offer open and agreed a usage review first.
What happened: Graeme Charlton, the CFO, said very few people log in against forty paid users and asked what the return on adding to it would be. Owen Tallis said the £2,934 is a one-off total for the expansion, not a new annual price, and the subscription stays at £42k a year.
Customer view: Graeme asked for the expansion to be lower or deferred. Owen declined a discount because discounts apply to the first term only, but agreed to move timing. Graeme said suppliers that keep their word matter to him and that he would come back after the review.
Commercial: The expansion is co-termed to the term ending 5 Jan 2026, with renewal on 6 Jan 2026. Kirsty Robson asked whether the January figure changes if the expansion is not taken, and Lewis Kerr did not answer, leaving it to the renewal conversation.
Watch: Active use is low against licences, and the customer has linked the expansion decision to the usage review. The evidence does not show a date for that review.
Themes
Current to 9 Oct 26Who was there
BB-Demo
Them
Follow-up
Next steps
Current to 9 Oct 26- Lewis Kerr to ask Amara Obi to offer Aisha's team dates for the usage review and write to Graeme Charlton, copying Kirsty Robson.
- Lewis Kerr to send the order form wording and confirm the invoice timing line to Kirsty Robson.
- Owen Tallis and Lewis Kerr to speak to Graeme again once the review is done.
Risks
Current to 9 Oct 26- Low active use against forty licences weakens the case for the expansion and the January renewal.
- The CFO wants the expansion lower or deferred and has made it conditional on the usage review.
Opportunities
Current to 9 Oct 26- The usage review with Aisha's team could show where adoption can grow beyond the contract managers.
- The £2,934 expansion stays open on the same terms until the review is seen.
Transcript
Lewis Kerr NoneAfternoon, Graeme, afternoon Kirsty. I've brought Owen with me, our VP Sales. I'll let him introduce himself.
Owen Tallis NoneAfternoon. Owen Tallis. Lewis asked me to join because there are a couple of commercial points on the table and I'd rather be here than have them go round in emails.
Graeme Charlton NoneAfternoon. Good to have you. Kirsty's here because the invoicing question is hers.
Kirsty Robson NoneHello. Sorry, I'm on a slightly dodgy connection today, so shout if I freeze.- Owen Tallis NoneWill do. Right, where does this stand against the date? We're working to Monday 8 September 2025 for signature. Is that realistic from your side, Graeme?
- Graeme Charlton NoneI'd say it's open. What's changed is that I've looked at the usage and I'm not comfortable. Let's keep it simple. Very few people are logging in. We pay for forty users.
- Owen Tallis NoneFair challenge. Lewis, you've the numbers in front of you?
- Lewis Kerr NoneI do. It's softer than last quarter, noticeably. Only a handful of people are active on a normal day against forty licensed. I said as much on the last call and I won't dress it up. What I'd add is that the people who do use it are the contract managers, and it's their day-to-day work.
- Graeme Charlton NoneThen what's the return on adding to it? That's the whole question for me.
- Owen Tallis NoneLet me be clear about the size of this. The expansion is £2,934, plus VAT, as a total for the expansion. It isn't a new annual price. Your subscription stays at £41,800 a year.
- Kirsty Robson NoneSo the £41,800 doesn't move, and the £2,934 is a one-off on top, until the renewal. Have I got that right?
- Lewis Kerr NoneYes. The £41,800 is the contracted annual figure and matches what's been invoiced. The expansion is co-termed to your renewal, so it finishes when the term finishes on 5 Jan 2026, and renewal follows on 6 Jan 2026.
- Kirsty Robson NoneOkay. And the invoice. Is that on signature, or on go-live? I'll need to know for the accruals.
- Lewis Kerr NoneOn signature, on thirty-day terms. I'll confirm that line in the order form, not from memory, and send it to you today.
- Kirsty Robson NoneThank you. That's enough for me on that.
- Graeme Charlton NoneI'll be direct. I'd like it lower, or I'd like it deferred until the usage picture is better. Is there room?
- Owen Tallis NoneLet me answer that properly. On price, no, not meaningfully. It's already a small figure, and I don't discount twice. Any discount we give applies to the first term, and you've had your first term. I'd rather tell you that now than string you along.
- Graeme Charlton NoneUnderstood. Blunt, but I'd rather that.
- Owen Tallis NoneOn timing, I think there's something we can do. The date of Monday 8 September 2025 is ours, not a hard deadline for you. Nothing breaks on your side if it moves.
- Lewis Kerr NoneAnd I'd back that. I don't want you signing something the usage doesn't support. That's not how I like to run an account.
- Graeme Charlton NoneSo what would you propose?
- Owen Tallis NoneTwo steps. First, Amara, your customer success manager, runs a usage review with Aisha's team, so you can see why the numbers have dipped and whether it's the product, the rollout or simply how the work is split. Second, you decide on the expansion once you've seen it. If it still doesn't stack up, you leave it.
- Graeme Charlton NoneAisha's the one who knows the team. She's the right person to sit in on that.
- Kirsty Robson NoneCan I ask something about the renewal? If we do nothing on the expansion, does the January figure change? I'd like to plan for it.
- Lewis Kerr NoneThat's for the renewal conversation, and Amara owns that with me. I won't guess at it on a call. What I can tell you is that the executed order form is the reference, and I'll make sure you have the date for that discussion well ahead, so it doesn't land on you.
- Kirsty Robson NoneThat's fair. I'd rather not be surprised, that's all.
- Graeme Charlton NoneNobody likes surprises. Suppliers that keep their word, that's what I look for. Do this review, properly, and I'll come back to you.
- Owen Tallis NoneThen what's the next dated step? I'd like one on the page before we hang up.
- Lewis Kerr NoneI'll ask Amara to offer Aisha's team dates for the usage review next week. I'll write to you, Graeme, with the proposed slot and copy Kirsty.
- Graeme Charlton NoneGood. And the expansion?
- Owen Tallis NoneWe hold it open, same terms, same total, until you've seen the review. I'd want us to talk again before Monday 8 September 2025 so nobody is guessing about where it stands.
- Graeme Charlton NoneAgreed. Short call, then, once the review is done.
- Kirsty Robson NoneFine by me.
- Lewis Kerr NoneThank you both. I'll send the order form wording and the review dates today. Speak soon.
- Graeme Charlton NoneThanks. Goodbye.