Delancey Haig / BB-Demo – Proposal
Callcompleted
Delancey Haig: documents · 2024-05-15 09:00
Proposal call on the Growth tier. Saskia Mendes wants it for client-account directors. CFO Rupert Lasker misread £53,800 as annual, wants a number for the board and IT sign-off, and did not commit.
What was said
What this says
Current to 11 Oct 26Proposal call on the Growth tier. Saskia Mendes wants it for client-account directors. CFO Rupert Lasker misread £53,800 as annual, wants a number for the board and IT sign-off, and did not commit.
What happened: The 15 May 2024 proposal call covered scope and price for Growth. Priya Raman clarified that £53,800 is the deal total with implementation, not an annual price.
Customer view: Saskia is the champion and would own it. Rupert is sceptical: he wants the annual cost on its own line, a named list of early users and IT comfort.
Commercial: Rupert asked for quarterly payment in writing and said he will ask about discount. Priya tied any price movement to the target decision date of Wednesday 19 June 2024.
Watch: Rupert called the value case "a case, not a number". The evidence does not show the outcome after the call.
Themes
Current to 9 Oct 26Theme
Growth proposal price clarity
Importance
neutral
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BB-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
Current to 9 Oct 26- Priya Raman to send a cover note splitting annual and implementation lines, with the quarterly option.
- Saskia Mendes to supply dispute history and a user list by team.
- Priya Raman to arrange a call between Rupert Lasker and Daniel Okafor, then an IT call.
Risks
Current to 9 Oct 26- Rupert Lasker read £53,800 as an annual figure, so the price framing caused a shock.
- No quantified payback exists yet, and the CFO says he cannot take hidden staff time to the board.
- IT approval and a Snowflake access owner are still unconfirmed.
Opportunities
Current to 9 Oct 26- Saskia Mendes sees a clear case in catching disputed contractor invoices earlier and wants to own the rollout.
- Finance and Saskia's own team could follow the directors as later users on Growth.
Transcript
Priya Raman NoneHello, hello. Can you both hear me alright?
Saskia Mendes NoneLoud and clear. Rupert's just dialling in from the other room, he's wrestling with the camera.
Rupert Lasker NoneMorning. I'm here, sorry. Can't get the picture, but you'll have to cope with the voice. Before we start, how long is this going to take? I've got a budget meeting at ten.- Priya Raman NoneForty minutes, so we finish on the hour, and I'll keep us tight. Happy to make this easy for you, Rupert.
- Rupert Lasker NoneGood. Thank you.
- Saskia Mendes NoneCan I just say one thing before the slides? Quick story from this week, because it's basically why I'm on this call.
- Priya Raman NonePlease, go for it.
- Saskia Mendes NoneOne of our client-account directors went into a quarterly review on Tuesday. Lovely client, long relationship. And about ten minutes in, the client's finance lead says, we've been disputing a contractor invoice for three weeks, has nobody told you? And she hadn't been told. It was sitting with accounts, in a different system, and nobody had joined it up to the account. She found out in the room.
- Rupert Lasker NoneI did hear about that one.
- Saskia Mendes NoneSo that's the thing. The directors need this. They need to walk in knowing the vacancies, the placements, the invoices and what the client has actually complained about. Not find out from the client.
- Priya Raman NoneThat's exactly the picture, Saskia, and it's a good place to start. So, quick recap of where we are, and then the next date. We did the walkthrough on your own data a while back, you've had the proposal in your inbox since then, and today is really about questions on scope and price. The date we've pencilled for a decision is Wednesday 19 June 2024, so if we can get this over the line by then, we keep momentum and you're live well before the summer lull.
- Rupert Lasker NonePencilled by you, I think.
- Priya Raman NoneFair, fair. Pencilled by me, as a target, nothing more. Your call entirely.
- Saskia Mendes NoneIt's a sensible target, though. Just so you know, Rupert, I'm not going to pretend we've got everything sorted on our side.
- Rupert Lasker NoneNoted. Priya, can you take me through what it is we'd be buying? In plain words. I read the proposal but I'd rather hear it.
- Priya Raman NoneOf course. So you'd be on the Growth tier. The idea is one layer over your CRM, your call and email records, the helpdesk and the accounting system, built and run inside your own Snowflake account. So the data doesn't leave your environment. Then your people ask it questions in plain English, or open pages that pull the account together. For Saskia's directors, that's a single view of a client: open vacancies, placements made, invoices raised and any disputes, and complaints, all on one page.
- Rupert Lasker NoneAnd it's only the client-account directors who'd use it?
- Saskia Mendes NoneTo begin with, yes. Directors first. Then I'd want my team on it, because we're the ones chasing contractor-invoice disputes. And then finance, I'd hope, if it earns its keep.
- Rupert Lasker NoneIf it earns its keep. Right. That's my question, really. What are we actually using, day to day? Because I've signed tools before that looked wonderful in a demo.
- Priya Raman NoneTotally fair. Can I take that in two parts? What you use, and then how we make sure you keep using it.
- Rupert Lasker NoneGo on.
- Priya Raman NoneWhat you use: the chat and search, so a director types, what's the state of this client, and gets the answer with the sources behind it. The pages, which are the client views. And on Growth you get the dashboards builder, so Saskia's team can build their own view of disputes without waiting for anyone. How we keep you using it: on Growth there are quarterly business reviews, so we sit down and look at who's asking questions, which teams, which have gone quiet. And Daniel Okafor, who'd be your customer success manager, owns that.
- Rupert Lasker NoneDaniel. I haven't met Daniel.
- Priya Raman NoneNo, and I'd like to fix that. I'll come back to it at the end, because I think it should be part of the next step.
- Rupert Lasker NoneMm. Fine. Now. Remind me of the annual cost.
- Priya Raman NoneYes. So, the number in the proposal is £53,800. And I want to be careful with how I describe that, because it's the total for the deal, implementation included. It's not an annual price. The one-off implementation sits inside it, and the annual subscription is the rest. The pricing page splits the two.
- Rupert Lasker NoneSo fifty-three eight is not what I'd pay every year.
- Priya Raman NoneCorrect. It's the all-in figure for getting you set up and running for the first term. After that, you'd be on the subscription only.
- Rupert Lasker NoneHm. That wasn't how I'd read it. I thought that was the yearly figure and I'd already put it in a spreadsheet that way.
- Saskia Mendes NoneI think that's on me, I said fifty-odd and he ran with it. Sorry, Rupert.
- Rupert Lasker NoneNo, no. But I do need it split properly. Annual on one line, implementation on another. Can you do that today?
- Priya Raman NoneI'll send a clean cover note after this call with the two lines separated and nothing else changed. Easy.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThank you. And nothing else changed means no surprises.
- Priya Raman NoneNo surprises. Same scope, same terms, same figures, just laid out so you can read it in ten seconds.
- Rupert Lasker NoneRight. Second thing. Can we do this ourselves?
- Priya Raman NoneYou can. I'd rather say that than have you find it out later. You've got people who can build reports and you've got a data warehouse. The honest question is what it costs you in people's time to keep it joined up. Every time the CRM changes a field, or the helpdesk changes a category, someone has to go and fix the reconciliation. And the answers have to be right at seven in the morning, not whenever somebody's had a chance.
- Rupert Lasker NoneWe have tried, actually. Haven't we, Saskia.
- Saskia Mendes NoneWe have. A few spreadsheets, a monthly pack that somebody in my team puts together over the best part of two days. By the time the directors see it, it's out of date. And it can't answer a question, it just sits there. What did the client actually say? The pack can't tell me that.
- Rupert Lasker NoneIt doesn't have to be a pack. We could ask the data team for a dashboard.
- Saskia Mendes NoneWe could. They're also doing three other things and I'd be waiting a quarter. Honestly, Rupert, I'd rather you challenge that than just let me say it. But I think the pack is a symptom, not the answer.
- Rupert Lasker NoneHm. All right. I'll hold that thought.
- Priya Raman NoneCan I add something on that? The point isn't that the brain does what a smart analyst couldn't. It's that it keeps doing it without somebody being assigned to it, and it covers the emails, calls and tickets, which are the bits that never make it into a dashboard.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThat's a sales answer, but it's not a wrong one.
- Priya Raman NoneI'll take that.
- Saskia Mendes NoneCan I put the contractor-invoice side to you, Rupert? Because that's where I think the money is.
- Rupert Lasker NoneGo ahead.
- Saskia Mendes NoneWhen a contractor invoice is disputed, we only usually hear about it when the client's finance team gets cross. By then it's been sitting for weeks. If a director could see, on the client page, that there's a disputed invoice and a complaint logged against the same placement, we'd pick up the phone in the first week. That's cash, and it's a relationship we don't wobble.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThat I do understand. Cost per placement goes up when we chase the same invoice for six weeks.
- Saskia Mendes NoneExactly. That's the whole case for me.
- Rupert Lasker NoneBut it's a case, Saskia, not a number. I need a number I can say to the board. Does it pay for itself within a year?
- Priya Raman NoneI wouldn't give you a promise on that, I don't think anyone honest could, because it depends on how many disputes you've got and how fast people act. What I can do is help you set up the measure before you start, so that at the first quarterly review you can look at disputes caught early against disputes caught late, and the time the pack used to take. Then it's your number, not mine.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThat's more sensible than most of what I'm told. Okay.
- Saskia Mendes NoneWe can pull the dispute history from accounts. I can ask my team to put together what we've got for the last couple of quarters, so there's a baseline.
- Priya Raman NoneThat would be brilliant. That also helps us size the first dashboards.
- Rupert Lasker NoneNext. How long before anyone is actually using it? Not signed. Using.
- Priya Raman NoneSo the implementation plan in the proposal runs a couple of months on Growth. The first connectors come live early, usually the CRM first, and then the others in the order we agree. Directors would start seeing real client pages well before the end of that, not only at the finish.
- Rupert Lasker NoneA couple of months. And during that time do I need to give you my people?
- Priya Raman NoneA bit of them, yes. Someone who knows each system, and someone in IT who can grant access into Snowflake. Then Saskia as the owner on your side. It's not a full-time job for anyone.
- Saskia Mendes NoneI'd be the owner. I'm happy with that, I'd want to be.
- Rupert Lasker NoneAnd if IT say no?
- Priya Raman NoneThen we'd want to know early, and I'd rather they were on a call before you sign than after. It runs inside your Snowflake account, under your own controls, so most of the usual worries are answered by how it's built. But they should ask whatever they like.
- Rupert Lasker NoneWho sees what? Because I don't want a junior in operations pulling up another team's margin.
- Priya Raman NoneAccess follows your roles. The brain only shows people what they're allowed to see in the source systems. It's something we'd go through properly with your IT person, rather than me waving my hands at it.
- Saskia Mendes NoneAnd that's one I'd flag too. The directors will want margin on a client, but my team shouldn't see all of it. We can map that out.
- Rupert Lasker NoneGood. Put that on the list.
- Priya Raman NoneAlready on it.
- Rupert Lasker NoneFewer suppliers is what I'm after, Priya. I'll be blunt. Every new tool is one more renewal, one more invoice, one more person on the phone. What does this replace?
- Priya Raman NoneHonestly? It doesn't replace a supplier, I won't pretend it does. It replaces the work of stitching the ones you've got together. And the monthly pack, and the chasing of people to tell you what the helpdesk says about a client. If you're asking whether it would let you switch off the CRM, no.
- Rupert Lasker NoneAppreciated. A straight no is better than a clever yes.
- Saskia Mendes NoneCan I make a simpler point? We already pay, in people's time, for the thing this does. It's just hidden. The pack takes two days of somebody who is quite senior.
- Rupert Lasker NoneHidden costs are not on my profit and loss, Saskia, they're in your team's week. I take the point, but I can't take it to the board.
- Saskia Mendes NoneFair. That's why I'll put the baseline together.
- Rupert Lasker NoneGood.
- Priya Raman NoneRupert, can I ask what would make this an easy yes for you? Not today, I know you don't decide at a first meeting. But if I knew what you'd need to see, I could shape the next two weeks around it.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThat's a fair question, and a fair assumption. I don't. Three things. The annual cost laid out on its own, as we said. A clear view of who would be using it in the first three months, by name or at least by team, so I can see what we're actually using. And someone from IT telling me they've looked at it and it isn't a headache.
- Priya Raman NoneGreat. That's very clear. I can do the first one today. Saskia, can you help with the second?
- Saskia Mendes NoneYes. I'll list the directors and my own team, and I'll put a question mark next to finance, because that's Rupert's to say.
- Rupert Lasker NonePut me down as a maybe.
- Saskia Mendes NoneA maybe with a question mark. Noted.
- Priya Raman NoneAnd for the IT piece, I'd suggest a short call, thirty minutes at most, with whoever looks after your Snowflake account, me and Daniel on our side. We'd answer what they ask and no more.
- Rupert Lasker NoneI'll find out who that should be. I'm not certain it's one person.
- Saskia Mendes NoneIt's two. A colleague in IT and someone in the data team. I'll sort it.
- Rupert Lasker NoneFine. Now, the contract. Is it a year? Is there a way out?
- Priya Raman NoneIt's an annual subscription, paid in advance, with the one-off implementation on top. Quarterly payment is possible if cash flow is the concern. I'd rather not talk about exit before we've talked about success, but I'll make sure the terms are written plainly so you can read them.
- Rupert Lasker NoneQuarterly would help. I'd want to see that in writing. Without a catch.
- Priya Raman NoneUnderstood. I'll get you the quarterly option in the cover note, same document, so it's all in one place.
- Rupert Lasker NoneMm. And any discount is a separate conversation. I'm not asking today. I'm saying I'll ask.
- Priya Raman NoneHeard. And I'll say plainly that if there's anything on price, it would come with a date attached, so it'd have to be settled in time for the nineteenth of June. I won't put anything in writing today.
- Rupert Lasker NoneGood. That's honest.
- Saskia Mendes NoneCan I ask one practical thing? What does a director actually do on day one? I need to tell them something that isn't a slide deck.
- Priya Raman NoneGood question. Day one, they open a client page and ask a question. Which placements are at risk this month, which invoices are in dispute, what's been said in the last few calls. We'd do a short training session with the directors in groups, an hour at most. Then Daniel does check-ins until it sticks.
- Saskia Mendes NoneAn hour is realistic. Any more and they won't turn up.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThey won't turn up for an hour either, in my experience.
- Saskia Mendes NoneThey will if the first thing they see is their own biggest client. Trust me, they'll come.
- Priya Raman NoneThat's exactly how we'd run it. Use their own accounts, nothing generic.
- Rupert Lasker NoneAll right. Let me ask something awkward. What happens if the data's wrong? If it tells a director a client has no complaints and they walk in and there's one?
- Priya Raman NoneIt's a fair worry. The brain is only as good as what flows in, so there's a nightly refresh, and the answers show their sources so a director can check where something came from. If a connector breaks, because someone changed a system, you'd see it and so would we. It isn't magic, and I'd rather you went in knowing that.
- Rupert Lasker NoneRight. That's more or less what I'd expect. I'd want a named person at your end for that, not a portal.
- Priya Raman NoneThat's Daniel, day to day. I'll get you both on a call, so you've got a face to put to the name.
- Saskia Mendes NoneWhich would be good for me too. I'd like him to see our pack before we kill it.
- Rupert Lasker NoneKill it. You said it, I didn't.
- Saskia Mendes NoneRetire it with honours.
- Priya Raman NoneHa. Retire it with honours, I'll use that.
- Rupert Lasker NoneLet me think about timing. If I'm not going to commit today, and I'm not, what's the earliest I could decide without being rushed?
- Priya Raman NoneIf I get you the cover note today, Saskia's baseline comes through next week, and the IT call lands the week after, you'd have everything in front of you with a few days to spare before Wednesday 19 June 2024. That's the shape I'd propose, but you tell me if it's too tight.
- Rupert Lasker NoneIt's tight but possible. I'll not promise the date.
- Priya Raman NoneWouldn't ask you to.
- Saskia Mendes NoneRupert, can I have one thing from you? If it turns out the baseline isn't convincing, just tell me and I'll hear it. I'd rather know than be strung along.
- Rupert Lasker NoneI would never string you along, Saskia. Slow you down, perhaps.
- Saskia Mendes NoneSlow is fine.
- Priya Raman NoneLet me read back what I've got, because I don't want anything to fall between us. One. I send the cover note today with the annual subscription and the implementation on separate lines, plus the quarterly payment option. Two. Saskia pulls together the dispute history and her list of users by team. Three. We set up a call with someone from IT and the data team, with Daniel and me. Four. Rupert comes back with any questions and, if it's right for him, a decision close to the nineteenth of June. Have I got that?
- Rupert Lasker NoneYou've got it. Add that I'd like to speak to Daniel before the IT call, not after.
- Priya Raman NoneDone. Daniel first, then IT.
- Saskia Mendes NoneAnd I'll do my bit by the end of next week. Is that okay?
- Priya Raman NoneThat's perfect. If it's earlier, even better, but that works.
- Rupert Lasker NoneOne more question and then I'll let you go. Who'd be our contact if you move on? People do.
- Priya Raman NoneFair question. For the contract and anything commercial, it'd be me through to signature, and then Daniel owns the relationship afterwards, with a named colleague covering for anything I've started. Day to day you'd go through Daniel anyway.
- Rupert Lasker NoneHm. Fine. I'll want that written in as well, in whatever form makes sense.
- Priya Raman NoneLet me see what I can do. I'll note it.
- Saskia Mendes NoneShould we use the rest of the time to look at the client page again? Rupert hasn't seen it on our own data, only me.
- Rupert Lasker NoneI've got a budget meeting at ten.
- Priya Raman NoneIt's only just gone half past nine. I can share my screen and take five minutes, then you can dash.
- Rupert Lasker NoneFive. Go.
- Priya Raman NoneSharing now. Can you see it? That's one of your larger clients, anonymised for the call. Across the top, the open vacancies and the placements made. Underneath, invoices, with anything in dispute highlighted. And on the right, the complaints and the last few calls and emails.
- Saskia Mendes NoneThat's the one. That's what I want every director to open on a Monday.
- Rupert Lasker NoneI see the invoice in dispute. Where does that come from?
- Priya Raman NoneYour accounting system. It's read, not changed. And if you click through, you land on the record itself, so nobody is taking the brain's word for it.
- Rupert Lasker NoneAnd that complaint over there?
- Priya Raman NoneFrom the helpdesk. A director would see it alongside the invoice, which is the whole point. One, you've got an unhappy client. Two, you've got a disputed contractor. Three, they're probably the same story.
- Rupert Lasker NoneHm. Yes. I can see why Saskia is keen.
- Saskia Mendes NoneSay it again, with feeling.
- Rupert Lasker NoneI can see why you're keen. That isn't a yes.
- Saskia Mendes NoneI'll take it as a not-no.
- Priya Raman NoneLet me show one more thing, then I'll stop. If I type a question, which clients have a disputed invoice and an open complaint this month, you get a list, with the sources. That's the sort of question the monthly pack can't answer.
- Rupert Lasker NoneThat is quicker than what I get now. I'll grant you that.
- Saskia Mendes NoneQuicker and it's current. The pack is from last month.
- Rupert Lasker NoneRight. I have to go. I'm going to need the cover note before lunch if I'm to look at it properly this afternoon.
- Priya Raman NoneYou'll have it within the hour. Thank you for the time, Rupert, and for being direct. It helps.
- Rupert Lasker NoneHm. Thank you both. Goodbye.
- Priya Raman NoneBye, Rupert.
- Saskia Mendes NoneHe's gone. Was that okay? I thought that went about as well as it could have, for a first look at price.
- Priya Raman NoneI thought so. He's sceptical, which is fine, he's supposed to be. What I took from it is that the annual line was the shock, and I should have been clearer in the proposal. That's my fault.
- Saskia Mendes NoneDon't worry about it, it was my shorthand too. I'll make sure the baseline is solid, because he's right. He needs a number.
- Priya Raman NoneIf you can get me anything on how long the pack takes and how many disputes ran long, I'll turn it into a one-page case for him. Then it's his number, built from your data.
- Saskia Mendes NoneI'll have a rough version by Friday. Not perfect, but enough to show the shape.
- Priya Raman NoneBrilliant. And can you give me the name of the IT person? I'll write to them directly, with you copied, so it doesn't feel like a sales call.
- Saskia Mendes NoneI'll send you both names. They're good people, they'll ask hard questions.
- Priya Raman NoneHard questions are what we want. Right. Anything else from you before I go and write that note?
- Saskia Mendes NoneJust one. Whatever happens with the date, can we keep it moving? I don't want this to drift into the summer. If it goes quiet, the directors lose interest, and so do I.
- Priya Raman NoneAgreed. I'll check in next week, and I won't let it go quiet. Best case, we're signed on the nineteenth and building in the weeks after.
- Saskia Mendes NoneLovely. Thanks, Priya. Speak soon.
- Priya Raman NoneSpeak soon, Saskia. Best, Priya.
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